Just liver glyogen? or also muscle glycogen?

How to prevent unwanted weightloss, and/or even gain muscles
haraldsmith
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Just liver glyogen? or also muscle glycogen?

Post by haraldsmith »

so this diet focus mainly on filling up your liver glyocen and using that for energy throughout the day? or are both the muscle and liver glycoen filled up?
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RRM
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Post by RRM »

Both.
haraldsmith
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Post by haraldsmith »

so how much are they typically filled up, just enough so you can deplete them throughout the day?
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Oscar
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Post by Oscar »

Filled totally.
haraldsmith
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Post by haraldsmith »

so every day you have to fill up all your stores, and then deplete them? is it easier then it sounds?
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Post by RRM »

You dont have to. You can fill them up to the extend that you want. Its just that its easier to maintain your muscle volume if the depots are filled up completely, and that its easier to not store any new fat if they are not filled completely, so that you have to find a balance according to the balance of what is most important to you.

If you are focussed on losing body fat, and still be able to eat relatively big (or munch) meals, you want to empty your glycogen depots daily.
If you are focussed on gaining muscle volume, you want to keep your glycogen depots filled up.
There is always a degree of compromise, as we (guys) dont just want to be slim, but also muscular. And also the social aspect plays a big role (how much focussed on eating do you want to be?)
haraldsmith
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Post by haraldsmith »

RRM wrote:You dont have to. You can fill them up to the extend that you want. Its just that its easier to maintain your muscle volume if the depots are filled up completely, and that its easier to not store any new fat if they are not filled completely, so that you have to find a balance according to the balance of what is most important to you.

If you are focussed on losing body fat, and still be able to eat relatively big (or munch) meals, you want to empty your glycogen depots daily.
If you are focussed on gaining muscle volume, you want to keep your glycogen depots filled up.
There is always a degree of compromise, as we (guys) dont just want to be slim, but also muscular. And also the social aspect plays a big role (how much focussed on eating do you want to be?)
well yes, i would be focusing mainly on gainging muscle volume. now getting all these depots filled up, how can you ensure that you wont be going over and spilling into fat? is there a general guideline depending on your weight / bodyfat?
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Post by RRM »

well yes, i would be focusing mainly on gainging muscle volume. now getting all these depots filled up, how can you ensure that you wont be going over and spilling into fat?
Ha, and thats why it is so much easier to walk a more balanced road; the more extreme you want to gain muscle mass, the harder it is not to gain fat.
That is exactly why professional bodybuilders have their period of bulking up on both muscle and fat (of course trying to avoid fat as much as possible), and then, prior to a contest, they rapidly try to lose that extra fat, knowing that they will also lose muscle volume in the process. After the contest they start bulking up again.

If your muscle mass volume is natural, its easiest to remain both muscular and trimmed all the time. If you want to have more muscle mass on top of that, but also remain trimmed, it gets exponentially harder because its an anabolic process that requires the same as that what prevents the catabolic process of shedding bodyfat (relatively high blood energy levels)
is there a general guideline depending on your weight / bodyfat?
You need to find out what balance is okay for you (lots of muscle mass means more fat), and then keep your blood energy levels accordingly.
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Post by haraldsmith »

ok, i understand. i guess i don't need have the huge look, so being musclar / trimmed is alright for me. so what kind of daily energy requirement am i looking at, if i am at 190 lbs?
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Post by RRM »

haraldsmith wrote:so what kind of daily energy requirement am i looking at, if i am at 190 lbs?
There are way too much variables to be able to give you any advice regarding requirements.
What you need to do, is to keep your blood sugar level very constant, so that there is no need to convert muscle protein into energy in between meals.
Also, you need to prevent keeping your blood sugar level too high, as this will result in storing more fat.
The same is true for blood protein and fat levels.
To be able to do this, you need to learn to monitor your blood energy levels very closely, and to find out by experience how much protein and fat you need.
Everybody is different, and everybody needs to learn about his/her requirements. There is no short / easy cut.
haraldsmith
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Post by haraldsmith »

i read somewhere that liver takes in around 400kcal and the muscles around 1600kcal. so let's say both my stores are empty, it will take arond 2000kcal of sugars to fill them both up?
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Post by Oscar »

I think 1600kcal is about the maximum for a well trained muscular man. So maybe more around 1200kcal? In that case 1600kcal in total should do it, yes.
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Post by haraldsmith »

ok.. so when all your stores are filled up, and let's say you started walking - after using some energy, your liver starts to convert its stores into energy, and when this is happening you are burning your fat?
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Post by Oscar »

I think you have the wrong idea. There is no circumstance in which the body will suddenly dig in the fat reserves. and will start using them a lot more than usual. So we have to induce the body, to start using bodyfat together with dietary fat. To do this you have to consume enough fats, so the body knows there isn't a fat shortage. Also, don't consume more calories than needed, as to prevent more body fat to be produced. And to know how much the body really needs isn't that easy. Only without any addictive and/or appetite enhancing substances, and listening to the body can this be achieved perfectly. And it will take some time do get to that stage.

Basically the term "burning fat" gives the wrong impression.
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Post by RRM »

haraldsmith wrote:ok.. so when all your stores are filled up, and let's say you started walking - after using some energy, your liver starts to convert its stores into energy
Correct, the liver then reconverts glycogen into glucose. The body then also uses muscle glycogen stored in the muscles in your legs.
..., and when this is happening you are burning your fat?
No, you are ALWAYS burning fat; 24 hours a day, 7 days a week (even when you sleep). Its just that with increasing your level of activity, the burning of fat increases (, and that of glucose even more).
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