Wikipedia.. Reshaping WaiSays.com

Web-lay-out suggestions, functionality, reporting dead links etc
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RRM
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Re: Wikipedia.. Reshaping WaiSays.com

Post by RRM »

I've just downloaded PHP designer 2005
I don't know anything about PHP, but does anyone know a website with multiple layers of tabs in the navigation bar?
(Maybe if I download that, I can use some of the construction)
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Re: Wikipedia.. Reshaping WaiSays.com

Post by BlueFrog »

Hi RRM,

Sorry I've been feeling kind of lousy with the diet problems I've been having and haven't looked at the website or this page again.

The main navigation bar does contain reference to the book. It's just called Wai diet rather than "free acne book". The second navigation bar is only for the book and only appears on the pages where the book is. But, I haven't changed anything yet to try to accomodate your wishes. So, it's not representative of much right now. I think I'll have some time to rework in the next few days.

PHP isn't necessary to create submenus. It can be done with css or javascript or a combination. I actually used PHP because it was an easy way to include a second page on the first.
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Re: Wikipedia.. Reshaping WaiSays.com

Post by RRM »

I understand; of course when you feel bad you don't feel like 'doing stuff'.

I just need the basic concept of how to create multiple layers in the navigation bar, so that I can copy / extend that myself.
Maybe you can just once create a second and third layer somewhere in the left hand navigation bar in your example page?

Secondly, can you make that navigation bar independent from the main text, so that when you scroll down the page, the navigation bar remains at exactly the same place?

Do you always make sure to eat often enough?
With this diet you need to consume something (a zip or bite) at least every half an hour.
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Re: Wikipedia.. Reshaping WaiSays.com

Post by nick »

RRM,

I understand what you mean, you want the nav bar to 'hover' along with the page as you scroll down.

I don't know PHP. BlueFrog, what exactly do you know?
My skills are beginner/intermediate with web stuff, as I am learning it right now.

I have made a nav bar this is different, but I'm wondering as to how you make it scroll along, and if I sent it to RRM, would it work on whatever web authoring software he has?

Thanks.
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Re: Wikipedia.. Reshaping WaiSays.com

Post by BlueFrog »

What you're talking about is a 'floating menu'. Those are rather complicated to create, irritating to use, and don't work so well across different browsers and platforms. That's why you don't see them on too many sites. If you look at major websites like cnn.com or microsoft.com or amazon.com, the menu bars are all static. So, I don't think that having a static menu bar would be confusing. It's what is normally done.

The current nav bar source already is on a separate page here: http://www.simplyskintastic.com/Wai/home.html. There's not much point to even looking at it right now since it is ugly test code that needs to be cleaned up and I think I'm going to try a completely different method for the next revision.

Nick, I'm a beginner and coding in WordPad (standard with Windows). Anyone can access what I write with any text editor. I can't think of a reason that a web-page editor would have problems reading a .txt file. They all use them.

In regards to my health, I'm ok now that I've cut out eggs and fish. Since it's chilly I sip warm water with lemon, honey, and olive oil all day long. Eating too little or too infrequently has never been a problem for me. ;)
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Re: Wikipedia.. Reshaping WaiSays.com

Post by Brian »

RRM,

I have to take a second to point out that I think the word you are looking for is "sip", not "zip".
But english speakers will understand what you mean either way.

Just thought I'd mention it. I see "zip" used everywhere and sometimes smirk when I see it. ;)

But maybe you really do mean to use "zip"?
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Re: Wikipedia.. Reshaping WaiSays.com

Post by RRM »

OK, so no zipping and floating menus anymore :)
I'm looking forward to the next revision BlueFrog!
Up to 4 layers is possible in the navigation bar?
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Re: Wikipedia.. Reshaping WaiSays.com

Post by RRM »

Here's a website with a floating menu http://www.sovemo.org/
Isn't this website displayed properly with any browser?

On this website a lot of space is wasted (on the right side), but couldn't we just skip the upper part (and the empty sace on the right), and have only a small space on the left side of the page, containing a thin navigation bar (of 1 of the logos) plus 3 of 4 logos?
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Re: Wikipedia.. Reshaping WaiSays.com

Post by RRM »

ha ha :)
I thought I could just copy how the frames work, and indeed now have a left hand bar in this test page:
http://www.brain-food.nl/test/index.htm
However, I guess I can't use that for surfing in the main frame, right? :p
Can that be counteracted by having a new window opened every time you click on a hyperlink in the left hand nav bar? (how can I do that?)
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Re: Wikipedia.. Reshaping WaiSays.com

Post by nick »

I think what you want to acheive is the same thing that sovemo.org did, right?

Where you click on the menu and it displays the content in the content area. So whenever you click on a different article, it will always show up in that content area. Is that what you want?

So where the main page of waisays is, you want the osteoporosis, cancer, etc.. to show up in that area.

I don't php, but you want the target to be the other frame, the content area. BlueFrog perhaps may know?

What did you use to build the site? Dreamweaver, PHP, HTML editor?
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Re: Wikipedia.. Reshaping WaiSays.com

Post by RRM »

Originally posted by nick:
I think what you want to acheive is the same thing that sovemo.org did, right?
Yes, that, or a new window opening whenever you click on a hyperlink in the left hand nav bar
Where you click on the menu and it displays the content in the content area. So whenever you click on a different article, it will always show up in that content area. Is that what you want?
Wouldn't that be best?
What did you use to build the site? Dreamweaver, PHP, HTML editor?
I just downloaded that site, and the removed all the contents and replaced these with WaiSays contents, and adapted the sizes of the frames; all in MS Frontpage.
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Re: Wikipedia.. Reshaping WaiSays.com

Post by nick »

Originally posted by RRM:

Where you click on the menu and it displays the content in the content area. So whenever you click on a different article, it will always show up in that content area. Is that what you want?
Wouldn't that be best?

[/b]yes, and the most easiest and simple.

What did you use to build the site? Dreamweaver, PHP, HTML editor?
I just downloaded that site, and the removed all the contents and replaced these with WaiSays contents, and adapted the sizes of the frames; all in MS Frontpage.[/b]
Ok. What did you use to build the original waisays site, MS Frontpage? Is that just purely an HTML editor?
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Re: Wikipedia.. Reshaping WaiSays.com

Post by RRM »

Yes, purely html
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Re: Wikipedia.. Reshaping WaiSays.com

Post by BlueFrog »

Hi,

This project is running away....

I tried a different method for creating menus and it was easier and worked great, but I could only get it to work in Mozilla based browsers. IE isn't fully up to web-standards yet. You can code a workaround, but then we're back to being as complicated as what I laid out in the first place.

I looked at multi-level tiers for navigation since I've never done that many levels and it takes many, many pages of code. It would take me weeks or months, if ever I could even decipher what it's saying and I'm not sure what anyone else who has to maintain the site would. I don't think it's practical anyway. You don't have to be able to reach every single page from the nav bar, but you do need to be able to reach every section and get a feel for the site.

Frames aren't used much today, they don't work so well with search engines. Usually div tags are. It's what was already incorporated into the original idea I laid out. The white space on the sovemo site isn't wasted. It's designed to work in 800 X 600 browser windows as well as others. Try changing your screen resolution to 800 X 600 and see what it looks like. I bet it fills up the whole page exactly. That resolution is the second most popular with about a third of people still using it as their screen resolution. You have to keep that in mind when designing.

The designs you've come across aren't new. They're basically what I already had with pretty pictures, but ugly inline text boxes. Also, it doesn't have standard practical features like clicking on the the logo doesn't take you to the home page of the site.

Again, I repeat. You don't need to know PHP to do this. PHP was to write this line only.

Code: Select all

<? include "home.html"; ?> 
Everything else in the source I used is completely html. The one line of PHP just allowed me to have the navigation on one page only and write the statement

Code: Select all

<? include "home.html" ?>
anywhere I want the navigation bar to be included. That way when changes are made you only have to edit the "home.html" page and all hundred, thousand, or even ten thousand pages with the navigation bar are updated.

I don't even know if you have php. You can test it by taking your page and changing the .html extension to .php and sticking the line

Code: Select all

<?php echo "PHP works!"; ?>
in your text somewhere. Then upload the page to your server and see if PHP works! appears on the page. If so, you have it on your server. I'm guessing that you do since it's standard these days and you have cgi and perl, which are much more advanced.

Also, it's really bad form to 'steal' code from the web. It's intellectual property, some of it is even copyrighted, and some people are possessive and will challenge you. There are tutorials and free script banks that freely allow you to use their code for personal and/or commercial purposes.

Seeing all of this banter about stuff that has already been more or less settled for practical reasons is why I wanted more discussion of the site in the first place. Your enthusiasm is wonderful, but it doesn't seem very tempered with realism or practicality. There are limits to what can be done and every 'test code' created is the equivalent of designing the site from scratch. Much better to thouroughly discuss what can be done and why. Create a mockup image in Photoshop, to decide even little things like color, maybe you want green instead of blue. Pick out the fonts. Create a logo and see if you get inspired to design the site around that. Think about the web powers. Instead of having to look up everything in a glossary, wouldn't it be nice to have rollover effects where the definition popped up when you hovered your cursor over the word or click of the word took you to the definition...

Anyway, I didn't want to lead this project. I get frustrated easily (in part because, like I said, I'm a beginner myself and not ready to take on teaching others). I offered to help, but I don't want to redesign your entire site for you (as I tried to allude to earlier) and try to teach people concepts that I'm not really strong with myself. There are some serious hurdles in having a site this large spread the way it is. (And because you heavily use the Waisays.com articles as references to the Acne Book/Diet, and the sole function of these boards is to support the book/diet, it is all one site.)

I apologize if I'm sounding snitty. It's not meant to be at all. I think you all are great. But, so far I don't think we've all been on the same page at all.
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Re: Wikipedia.. Reshaping WaiSays.com

Post by RRM »

Originally posted by BlueFrog:
I tried a different method for creating menus and it was easier and worked great, but I could only get it to work in Mozilla based browsers.
Thank you for trying BlueFrog!

I looked at multi-level tiers for navigation since I've never done that many levels and it takes many, many pages of code. It would take me weeks or months, if ever I could even decipher what it's saying ...
Maybe we can find a way to decrease the required number of layers somehow. I guess with every layer the amount of work increases exponentially?
Frames aren't used much today, they don't work so well with search engines.
I'm thinking of using frames only in 'the main pages', and parallel to the same main pages without frames.
You don't need to know PHP to do this. PHP was to ... That way when changes are made you only have to edit the "home.html" page and all hundred, thousand, or even ten thousand pages with the navigation bar are updated.
Ahh, very practical indeed.
I don't even know if you have php.
Not yet (only on WaiTalk)
We are going to move the waiSays pages to another host, and then we have php on all the pages.
Thank you for the leads.
Also, it's really bad form to 'steal' code from the web. It's intellectual property, some of it is even copyrighted, and some people are possessive and will challenge you.
What I did, was downloading a page with frames, and stripping it from everything until only 3 frames were left. Nothing but frames.
Then I filled the frames with WaiSays stuff.
In MS Frontpage and other edit programmes, frames are standard. I just didn't know how to put 2 frames next to eachother.
So, what I 'stole', was how to put 2 frames next to eachother.
Its like learning how to change fonts. I doubt that there is any intellectual property in how to put 2 frames side by side.
Your enthusiasm is wonderful, but it doesn't seem very tempered with realism or practicality.
I know nothing about this stuff.
I just do and learn.
I think I can learn by making mistakes; that's how I learned how to walk.
Realism is knowing that you may fall when trying, but it shouldn't stop you from trying again. And by trying you learn what is practical, or not.
Tempered?
Not me.
Much better to thouroughly discuss what can be done and why.
Absolutely, but there isn't always someone around to answer my questions, so I thought I might experiment a little in the meantime.
Instead of having to look up everything in a glossary, wouldn't it be nice to have rollover effects where the definition popped up when you hovered your cursor over the word or click of the word took you to the definition...
Absolutely, but shouldn't we start with the first steps?: the navigation bar.
I offered to help, but I don't want to redesign your entire site for you
And there is no need to.
What already would make a huge difference, would be the navigation bar
so far I don't think we've all been on the same page at all.
That shouldn't have to be a problem, because that is where communication is for!
Question:
Can you make a basic concept for a 3 layer navigation bar?
Like: 3 main subjects, each with 3 sub-options, and each of the 3 sub-options with 3 pages to choose from?

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