Loading up on glycogen & circadian rhythm

[martianwarrior]

This topic was split off from another thread

i want to try this diet, but am worried how it would affect my boxing training.

i've been learning and reading about hormones, how they affect our body, how food affects hormones, how hormones affect food, etc/.

i wonder about whether or not drinking juice all day might affect hormonal health,. balances, rhythm, timing, effectiveness, all that.

i'm wondering about insulin.
if i were to load up on about 130-150 oz. of OJ between 10-1(3 hours. 50 oz. p/hour)

then recover with however much OJ i need after 2-3 hours of training with just small amounts of water to keep my mouth wet.

according to what are known as circadian rhythms best coordination, fastest reaction time, gretest cardio 'efficiency' and muscle strength, all occur sequentially at 14:30, 15:30 and 17:00.
i would assume this is the best time for me to work out?... i'm doing it now while sipping juice. it feels good.
highest blood pressure and highest body temp occur at 18:30 and 19:00.
that would seem like the best time to recover with juice or have been sipping it before this time and then protein. the blood would be ready to pump nutrients and the effect would perhaps be stronger? why is our blood moving faster during this time without any food? does this still occur when food is eaten?! WHAT IS GOING ON!!!

would this kind of diet style cause insulin problems, diabetes?

then making sure that one does not eat or drink for an appropriate amount of time before melotonin secretion starts. 21:00.

bowel movements suppressed at 22:30. hopefully sleeping or ready to fall asleep.
deepest sleep at 2:00.
ya'll can look up the rest!

you'll see where i'm going. i'm thinking i should think about eating more protein when i wake up when testosterone secretion is strong. or should i just let it happen with no food?


this circadian rhythm is new to me and it is fascinating... i want to learn more. i cant seem to find answers. i'm ready to experiment!

what do you guys think!?

[RRM]

i'm wondering about insulin.
if i were to load up on about 130-150 oz. of OJ between 10-1(3 hours. 50 oz. p/hour)

Thats up to 2092 kcal, about 700 kcal / hour.
I dont know what your energy requirements are, but lets say you normally need 200 kcal / hour (not incl. sleep)
then you will be loading up 500 kcal / hour.
If your glycogen depots are totally empty, you would need about 1600 kcal, so that sounds about right.
However, its much better to start loading up on glycogen right after exercising,
to stimulate the uptake of amino acids in muscle tissue, and to stimulate increasing maximum glycogen capacity.
So, why not spread those 1500/1600 kcal over 2 period: right after exercise and right before the next one?
Its always better to spread it out as then you will minimize the spill-over to storing bodyfat. (glucose > triglycerides)

then recover with however much OJ i need after 2-3 hours of training

Ah, okay, you probably mean that you are also loading up on glycogen right after exercise...
But if you, you need to load up on much less glycogen right before the next training session.

according to what are known as circadian rhythms best coordination, fastest reaction time, gretest cardio 'efficiency' and muscle strength, all occur sequentially at 14:30, 15:30 and 17:00.
i would assume this is the best time for me to work out?...

Absolutely, as exercising is about raising your max capacity, which can only be done when you are at your best.

highest blood pressure and highest body temp occur at 18:30 and 19:00.
that would seem like the best time to recover with juice

And protein, indeed.

or have been sipping it before this time and then protein. the blood would be ready to pump nutrients and the effect would perhaps be stronger?

Yes, juice right away and about 15 minutes later followed by protein.

why is our blood moving faster during this time without any food? does this still occur when food is eaten?! WHAT IS GOING ON!!!

Its a hormonal thing.
We all have an inner clock inside our body.
According to that clock, various hormones are released in greater amounts at specific times,
initiating various processes (such as repair and subsequent cleaning up during sleep)

would this kind of diet style cause insulin problems, diabetes?

Only if you would keep on loading up on carbs or protein after your glycogen depots have been completely filled.

you'll see where i'm going. i'm thinking i should think about eating more protein when i wake up when testosterone secretion is strong. or should i just let it happen with no food?

Testosterone is for multiple purposes, and one of them is muscle building.
Its also for feeling very confident and 'aggressive' (which can also be positive in the sense of taking initiatives).
Muscle building is most effectively achieved in response to muscle damage (exercise) combined with high blood-sugar and -protein levels.
Of course you can eat a small portion of your protein intake in the morning (say 30%).

what do you guys think!?

Great idea!
Please keep us informed.

[martianwarrior]

thank you RRM! great answers, much of which i am not surprised by. but now i feel some new questions and ideas coming to a boil. i'm going to map out a few different methods and routines i would liek to experiment with this week and i'll report back in a week or so.

thanks again!

[martianwarrior]

ok, so it's been a while...

most days i'm waking up around 08:00. i wait until around 10:30 - 11:00 to start drinking OJ. i think in my last post i said i wanted to consume 150 oz of juice in a matter of 3 hours. i don't think that's really possible it doesn't feel good, anyway... what i'm doing now is starting the juice at 11 am and consuming at the most 80 oz within about 4-5 hours.

i've been working out while sipping juice, contrary to what i said i was going to do. it has been working out well so far.

i typically workout from 16:00 - 18:00 or later... i'm usually recovering with juice by or before 18:30 and do so for about 1 hour, consuming about 40-50 oz. i wait 15 minutes for juice to leave stomach and space out 12 egg yolks a little over an hour. wait 1 hour and finish the night with another 20 oz or so of juice.

when i eat salmon i eat 8 oz.

that's my diet right now and to be quite clear... yes, i don't consume anything between the time i wake up and when i starting drinking juice. the last few days i've been waiting until 13:00 to start consuming juice. just experimenting, seeing how it feels. i have to say that i don't feel tired in the morning until i start sipping. what i'm not sure of is whether or not i'm still releasing glycogen from what my body stored up before sleeping.

if i want to attempt to calculate how much glycogen i am storing i believe that i have to be sure of what my energy needs are as far as calories. since what i'm doing is sort of blurring the line between just enough and not enough, i think it would be hard to make sure i'm getting an accurate calculation.

what has really got me scratching my head about all this is that, visibly, it appears as though i'm losing fat (more so than i was able to on the normal wai diet[even when i cut out the olive oil, it was hard for me to lose stubborn stomach fat])
at the same time, my weight has gone up about 3-5 lbs and it seems to be in the form of muscle. it feels like muscle mass is slowly increasing and feeling thicker. but of course this is all just assumption based on how i feel and look, which i think are good indicators, but when it comes to the human body, you can never be too sure

what i need to do is make sure i'm very strict about the diet, the amount i consume, when i consume and make sure it's all consistent. every few weeks i eat some sauerkraut. once in a blue moon i eat some cheese. cheese is rather calorie dense, a lot of fat, so i need to completely cut that out to make sure it's not affecting my nutrient stores.

i also need to monitor my weight more closely and my body fat percentage. i have a nice scale that can calculate all that so i might as well use it

i have to do this experiment correctly to get true results.


any ideas, suggestions or tips?

[Oscar]

When your glycogen depots are full, they can last 8-12 hrs, so not eating for a while should never be a problem for sugar energy, as long as the depots are refilled at some point.

[RRM]

i have to say that i don't feel tired in the morning until i start sipping.

In the absence of sufficient energy, your body starts releasing adrenalin to convert stored energy (including muscle protein)
into available energy.
The adrenalin prevents your from feeling tired.
This system is designed in order to be able to function normally when not sufficient energy is available.

what i'm not sure of is whether or not i'm still releasing glycogen from what my body stored up before sleeping.

Yes, sometimes its hard to distinguish between different metabolisms.

it appears as though i'm losing fat ...my weight has gone up about 3-5 lbs and it seems to be in the form of muscle.

Thats an interesting observation.
Maybe you can continue this way for a few months to see what the eventual results are?
would be interesting...

[martianwarrior]

first of all...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3R2TJPoG4s <about 18 minutes long...


after juggling around with the OJ/yolk/fish diet, i'm doing it everyday now and plan to do it through the summer or
perhaps longer.

i will also get blood tests in the spring and late summer for all nutrients, hormones and w/e else they can test for in my blood. i know that blood testing is not necessarily the best indicator of good health. but, it would at least show some further evidence whether or not the diet will keep you with a stable steady supply... and make you feel good haha



so i guess i'll just get realll focused now and keep training really hard while do my best to stay committed to the diet.



any suggestions on how i could make the experiment better?

[RRM]

Great experiment.
I wouldnt know how to improve the experiment; its pretty basic;
do this diet strictly, and then test your blood levels....
Im looking forward to the blood test results.
The last 2 words were a bit unexpected...