Bacteria in food and stomach cancer

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spring
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Bacteria in food and stomach cancer

Post by spring »

There is a high rate of stomach cancer in Korea ... there are many smokers in Korea where I am living right now (and many drinkers too, especially of that potent stuff, soju, stronger than beer, a spirit a bit similar to vodka in taste and appearance although the alcohol content is lower, around 20% I think) but there are many smokers and drinkers in other countries as well - and I think the high incidence is found in females as well, who do not smoke or drink as much as the males --- I was reading in waisays.com that ingesting too much bacteria, presumably especially on a regular basis - can cause stomach cancer.

Which led me to think that maybe the kimchi and the many other pickled foods that Koreans like to eat could be the cause of this? Fermenting the cabbage is supposed to preserve it (it's also considered raw food by some people although I don't think Wai considers it to be as it's been adulterated - pickled - in some way, to stop the 'bad' bacteria breeding, but I suppose there are still so-called 'good' bacteria present, the lactobacilli, the multiplication of which is a product of the fermentation process? Would this be the cause of too much bacteria in this hypothesis (that too much bacteria is formed from fermenting cabbage and this is responsible for the high rate of stomach cancer in Koreans?)

I also have found that there is a high rate of stomach cancer in the Japanese, and that the Japanese and the Koreans are related genetically somewhat - and that this cancer that is very high among people with Type A blood, also a type of cancer that is common in Japan and Pacific islanders - associated with a gene they share - and the Japanese and Koreans tend to eat a lot of preserved food - the Japanese have their pickled daikon and pickled plums and some other salty foods (I don't really know that much about Japanese foods) - does the stomach cancer have a genetic basis or is it diet-based or a combination of both? And if there is a diet connection - what is the connection specifically, is it the bacteria?

I am asking this because I have read conflicting reports about spicy foods - that is lots of chili and other spices - I used to be told that spicy foods do not cause stomach problems - ulcers or cancer - that this was a commonly believed myth but I read recently somewhere that spicy foods can cause serious stomach problems (not just the runs for people that aren't used to spices) - I can't remember where I read this - so I am not sure what to think ....

If spicy foods are implicated is it because they tend to mask the bad taste of deteriorated foods - and so people eating these foods are ingesting way too much bacteria or is there something inherently damaging to the stomach in the spices themselves? And if the bacteria is the problem - is it only the 'bad bacteria' causing the problem or the 'good bacteria' as well (properly fermented kimchi without much bad bacteria stomach cancer-causing)?

I am now starting to think people get the runs from eating curry because they are eating a whole lot of bacteria with the curry, and not from the spices themselves - because the people who eat the same food more regularly eg the Indians seem not to complain of this problem as much - having built up immunity presumably - but Indians do not suffer from a high incidence of stomach cancer as far as I know and they eat much 'spicy' food (well at least compared to the average meat and potatoes, burgers and fries westerner).

Or is my recall wrong and spicy foods are not implicated in stomach cancer at all?

And I have read that pickled foods are associated with an increased incidence of colon cancer, but I don't know what the connection, I haven't read this information anywhere.

... But I suppose I should do the research in medical sites myself instead of bothering Wai and RRM ........
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Re: Bacteria in food and stomach cancer

Post by RRM »

Originally posted by spring:
...Fermenting the cabbage is supposed to preserve it (it's also considered raw food by some people although I don't think Wai considers it to be as it's been adulterated - pickled - in some way, to stop the 'bad' bacteria breeding, but I suppose there are still so-called 'good' bacteria present, the lactobacilli, the multiplication of which is a product of the fermentation process? Would this be the cause of too much bacteria in this hypothesis (that too much bacteria is formed from fermenting cabbage and this is responsible for the high rate of stomach cancer in Koreans?)
There are many causes of stomach cancer; anything that you ingest with an aggressive nature can cause stomach cancer.
I do recall a study where they mentioned pickled foods as a food product that could increase stomach cancer-risk. Probably not due to an overload of bacteria, but rather due to aggressive compounds originating from the 'pickling-ingredients' (such as salt) in combination with the fermentation process; fermentation sets molecules free that easily react upon other molecules, creating new compounds (such as N-nitroso compounds).

does the stomach cancer have a genetic basis or is it diet-based or a combination of both?
Its a combination of both, but even people with the least 'cancer-prone genes' can very well get any type of cancer; cancer is not a genetic disease, but generally caused by ingested aggressive compounds.
Your 'genes' can only determine to what extend you are more or less volnerable (regarding the production of defensive enzymes, for example).
I used to be told that spicy foods do not cause stomach problems - ulcers or cancer - that this was a commonly believed myth but I read recently somewhere that spicy foods can cause serious stomach problems
Spicy foods are spicy because they contain aggressive substances. These substances are part of the defense system; they are in that 'food' (eg hot peppers) to protect that 'food' against consumption.
Us eating those toxins is some kind of sado-masochism.
So, yes, consuming spicy foods can very well cause stomach problems, including cancer.
If spicy foods are implicated is it because they tend to mask the bad taste of deteriorated foods -
Yes, very much true.
Ingesting too much bacteria never comes from eating raw foods, because you simply cannot eat dteriorated raw food. Only if these deteriorated foods have been spiced up (or pickled) sufficiently, you may ingest too much bacteria without noticing.
if the bacteria is the problem - is it only the 'bad bacteria' causing the problem or the 'good bacteria' as well
Too much of any bacteria is bad, and good bacteria in our body are also present in deteriorating foods, so its hard to make a clear distinction between 'good' and ' bad' bacteria.

Properly fremented foods may even cause cancer if chemicals (like salt) are involved that can lead to the formation of aggressive compounds.
I am now starting to think people get the runs from eating curry because they are eating a whole lot of bacteria with the curry, and not from the spices themselves -
They get the runs from the spices themselves; our intestines dont like them, and try to get rid of them as soon as possible.
the people who eat the same food more regularly eg the Indians seem not to complain of this problem as much
Thats because having the runs is very bad for you, and if you regularly eat those spicy foods, you are forcing your body to stop having the runs, to protect you against the greater eveil of having the runs too often.
In that case the lesser eveil (the spices) are tolerated to prevent the greater evil (having the runs all the time)
... But I suppose I should do the research in medical sites myself instead of bothering Wai and RRM ........
Well, that would be very helpful; that way we all can teach eachother stuff on this board. :D
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Post by gracie »

RRM wrote:
I do recall a study where they mentioned pickled foods as a food product that could increase stomach cancer-risk. Probably not due to an overload of bacteria, but rather due to aggressive compounds originating from the 'pickling-ingredients' (such as salt) in combination with the fermentation process; fermentation sets molecules free that easily react upon other molecules, creating new compounds (such as N-nitroso compounds).
Does heating salt create the same N-nitroso compounds that salt-fermentation does?
Us eating those toxins is some kind of sado-masochism
Ha ha, couldn't agree more!
I was just reading up on hot sauce, in particular, because my sister is pregnant and all she wants to eat is hot sauce. So I was looking into pregnancy cravings, because they are so interesting and almost animalistic (the cravings are hyper-intense; a lifelong vegetarian suddenly starts eating meat, for example; the food combinations are artful and strange; women eating dirt, etc.). And I noticed that one of the most popular cravings for pregnant women happens to be hot sauce.

I agree that eating jalapenos and such is subconsciously a sadomasochistic activity; and so my feminist mind was reeling with all these theories about how these pregnant women possibly feel burdened by their new roles or mourn the loss of their independence or something, and so consume massive amounts of hot sauce in an act of subconscious protest...ha ha.
But then I read that eating such irritating foods actually release endorphins, just as any pain inflicted upon the body releases pleasurable endorphins. And hot sauce contains a lot of capsaicin, which interferes with a certain neurotransmitter that transmits pain impulses to the brain.

My point being, I know a lot of (non-pregnant) people who are hot sauce addicts, and perhaps they are really endorphin-addicts.
This also makes me wonder if alcohol is an effective pain-reliever because it releases endorphins, since it's certainly irritating going down. (though I know it has many other properties that can dull pain and relax muscles)
So I think hot peppers and alcohol are more like medicines to be used sparingly...not consumed every night with dinner.
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Post by gracie »

Properly fremented foods may even cause cancer if chemicals (like salt) are involved that can lead to the formation of aggressive compounds.
I am currently planning to make salt-less sauerkraut, and I've found recipes that include either wine or vinegar. Could either of these form aggressive compounds via fermentation?
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Post by RRM »

gracie wrote: Does heating salt create the same N-nitroso compounds that salt-fermentation does?
Some of the same, yes.
Its the combination of salt and proteins heated or fermented.
My point being, I know a lot of (non-pregnant) people who are hot sauce addicts, and perhaps they are really endorphin-addicts.
Yes, thats a well known theory behind it.
So I think hot peppers and alcohol are more like medicines to be used sparingly...not consumed every night with dinner.
Exactly.
gracie wrote: I am currently planning to make salt-less sauerkraut, and I've found recipes that include either wine or vinegar. Could either of these form aggressive compounds via fermentation?
No, not that i know.
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Re: Bacteria in food and stomach cancer

Post by Mr. PC »

Spicy foods are spicy because they contain aggressive substances. These substances are part of the defense system; they are in that 'food' (eg hot peppers) to protect that 'food' against consumption.
Us eating those toxins is some kind of sado-masochism.
So, yes, consuming spicy foods can very well cause stomach problems, including cancer.
haha this is interesting. What about more mildly spices like cumin, Currie, onions, sweet peppers. I use them sometimes as munch food flavorings. Are these significanty less dangerous from other spices?
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Re: Bacteria in food and stomach cancer

Post by panacea »

I guess now I can tell people I used to be a sado-masochist, cause I used to lick my finger and dip it in Cayenne Pepper extract and lick it off to 'wake me up'. That's the stuff they use in Mace by the way, but I learned my lesson one fateful day..........
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Re: Bacteria in food and stomach cancer

Post by RRM »

Mr. PC wrote:What about more mildly spices like cumin, Currie, onions, sweet peppers.... Are these significanty less dangerous from other spices?
Yes, in general the most aggressive compounds taste that way too.
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Re: Bacteria in food and stomach cancer

Post by Oscar »

panacea wrote:...but I learned my lesson one fateful day..........
Do tell! ;D
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Re: Bacteria in food and stomach cancer

Post by Kookaburra »

Speaking about bacteria, if I drop my salmon onto the sink accidentally, can I still consume it?
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Re: Bacteria in food and stomach cancer

Post by RRM »

Sure, just rinse it off.
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Re: Bacteria in food and stomach cancer

Post by djkvan »

Floor= five-second rule. :lol:
I do so like green eggs and ham. Thank you, thank you. Sam I am.
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Re: Bacteria in food and stomach cancer

Post by Kookaburra »

five second rule? What about food that is dropped on the roadside? Not safe to eat anymore regardless if you rinse it?
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Re: Bacteria in food and stomach cancer

Post by Oscar »

I think he means that if the food doesn't move away by itself after 5 seconds, it'll be still safe to eat. ;)
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Re: Bacteria in food and stomach cancer

Post by Mr. PC »

Unless you drop it into a pile of salt ;)
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