Q about (cooked) salmon and iron intake.

[MarciavD]

Hi all,

I'ven been struggling to find my way in Wai (mostly problems with managing energy-intake and sticking to the diet for 100%) for almost two years now. About a month ago I started WW and AT LAST: it seems to be a great help in controlling my appetite / hunger and eating normal amount of food (in total, but I do eat big meals). To be sure I consume enough energy, but especially I get all nutrients, I started to log my food in Cronometer.
I try to eat a 1:1 (1.5) carb-fat ratio (in grams, not energy) and I increased my protein intake. The last thing was the hardest, because before Wai I was a devoted vegan and now I feel like a vegan-failure, or at least a very hypocrite ex-vegan.
Very soon it was okay for me to consume egg yolks (I get my eggs from neighbours who love their chickens and don't slaughter them if they stop laying eggs so that's okay with me), but since a couple of weeks I started to crave salmon.. My body really detests the taste of raw salmon, so I try to cook them on a low temperature (heating a cooking pan until it's hot and I turn down (or even turn off) the gas as soon as the salmon goes in).
I have to say last weeks have been the best weeks of my life, energy-wise. I feel more stable, happy and energetic, less tired and I can't explain, maybe 'awake' is the right word. My eyes feel more open and my mind is clear. The slow cooking idea came to me from another post from Emeira who said she ate slow cooked chicken. Somehow I thought I could try something like that. But, my questions:
I don't seem to get acne from eating cooked salmon. I eat 250 gr cooked salmon / 4 times a week. Could this be the reason why I feel so much better? Do people really need animal food? My mind still doesn't want to accept it. I feel so extremely bad about myself but just find it very hard to stop consuming fish because my body seems to be very happy lately and I carve it so much. And: how unhealthy is it to eat slow cooked salmon? (not regarding acne, but regarding cancer, etc)
In addition I eat 4-6 yolks a day, daily.

My other question is about iron. I seem to be able to eat everything I need, except iron. The recommended amount is 15 mg for women, I only eat about 8-10mg. Is that a problem? I don't have heavy periods or things like that. I looked for supps, but if it isn't really necessary I don't want to take them.

[MarciavD]

OR... Is it addiction to cooked foods that makes me crave the salmon?
This just pops into my mind...

[Aytundra]

The recommended amount is 15 mg for women, I only eat about 8-10mg. Is that a problem?

If you are worried about iron, Do you like chocolate?

https://pro.anses.fr/TableCIQUAL/index.htm
Click --> Anses Table Ciqual 2013 >> Search by component >> Iron


Very High (100 g of food/day might bring you to 15 mg/day):
~ (4) Curry powder --- 29.7 mg / 100 g average, (29.60 mg to 30 mg, min to max), [grade D]
~ (6) Ginger ground --- 19.8 mg / 100 g average, [grade C]
~ (8) Cinnamon --- 18.2 mg / 100 g average, (1.15 mg to 38.10 mg, min to max), [grade C]
~ (9) Chocolate, dark - 40% cocoa --- 17.1 mg / 100 g average, (1.40 mg, min) [grade A]
~ (21) Chocolate, extra dark, 70% cocoa --- 10.7 mg / 100 g average, [grade B]


High (500 g to 500 ml of food/day might bring you to 15 mg/day):
~ (88) Cashew nut, roasted and salted --- 5.03 mg / 100 g average, (3.80 mg to 8.07 mg, min to max), [grade B]
(122) Macadamia Nut --- 3.69 mg /100 g average, (3.13 mg to 5.21 mg, min to max), [grade B]
(129) Hazelnut --- 3.47 mg /100 g average, (2.70 mg to 4.80 mg, min to max), [grade B]
(130) Coconut, kernel, dry --- 3.46 mg /100 g average, (3.32 mg to 3.60 mg, min to max), [grade C]
(142) Coconut milk (liquid expressed from grated meat and water --- 3.3 mg / 100 g average, [grade C]
~ (169) Chocolate paste with hazelnuts --- 2.9 mg / 100 g average, (1 mg to 4.38 mg, min to max), [grade B]
(181) Egg yolk, raw --- 2.75 mg / 100 g average, (0.70 mg to 6.53 mg, min to max), [grade A]
(190) Mango juice, raw --- 2.6 mg / 100 g average, (1.50 to 3.70 mg, min to max) [grade C]
(163) Almond --- 3 mg /100 g average, (2.58 mg to 502* mg, min to max), [grade A] {*5.02mg?, typo?}
(208) Brazil nut --- 2.46 mg/ 100 g average, (2.32 mg to 2.63 mg, min to max), [grade C]
(192) Pecan nut --- 2.6 mg / 100 g average, (2.10 mg to 3.10 mg, min to max), [grade C]
(193) Walnut --- 2.6 mg / 100 g average, (2 mg to 3.20 mg, min to max), [grade B]
~ (188) Beef, ground, 5% fat, raw --- 2.65 mg / 100 g average (1.76 mg to 2.86 mg, min to max), [grade A]

Medium:
(370) Tuna, raw --- 1.54 mg / 100 g average, (1 to 4 mg, min to max) [grade B]


Low (2000 g to 2000 ml; 3000 g to 3000 ml of food/day might bring you to 15 mg/day):
~ (650) Mackerel, smoked --- 0.88 mg / 100 g average, (0.60 mg to 1.53 mg, min to max), [grade B]
(738) Mango pulp, raw --- 0.7 mg / 100 g average, (0.09 mg, min) [grade B]
(859) Papaya pulp, raw --- 0.483 mg / 100 g average, (0.14 mg to 2 mg, min to max) [grade B]
~ (903) Chicken breast, meat only, cooked --- 0.4 mg / 100 g average (1.08 mg, max) [grade A]
(920) Salmon, farmed, raw --- 0.385 mg / 100 g average, (0.17 mg to 2.40 mg, min to max) [grade A]
(964) Apricot, raw --- 0.32 mg / 100 g average, (0.16 mg to 0.85 mg, min to max) [grade A]
(988) Banana, pulp, raw --- 0.281 mg / 100 g average (0.19 mg to 0.80 mg, min to max) [grade B]
(998) Strawberry, raw --- 0.273 mg / 100 g average (0.11 mg to 1.31 mg, min to max) [grade B]
(999) Peach, peeled, raw --- 0.272 mg / 100 g average (0.11 mg to 0.48 mg, min to max) [grade B]
(1119) Melon, raw --- 0.167 mg / 100 g average ( 0.07 mg to 1.05 mg, min to max) [grade B]
(1172) Orange, sweet, pulp, raw 0.106 mg / 100 g average (0.07 mg to 0.55 mg, min to max) [grade B]
-----------------------
List reads like this:
(Rank Number for Iron) Food name, average mg / 100 g, (min to max mg/ 100g), confidence code "how confident the data was to Anses".
"~" means that the food might not be a Wai item, heat treatment or munch food, or munch food additive.

If I wanted to spike my diet with iron, I would go for adding some of those items, as they look like easy ways to get iron. Just 500 ml mango juice (hopefully it is not low in iron like mango pulp!) and I hope Anses collected the data right for those foods.

[MarciavD]

Thanks. I would like to know if I really need 15mg.

I do eat yolks, mango, hazelnuts, coconut(milk), very dark chocolate sometimes and also use cinnamon.

[Oscar]

You could also try a different kind of fish (ie mackerel) and see if your body accepts that more easily.
We do need some animal protein. Fish/meat for the omega-3 (DPA and DHA) fatty acids, egg yolks for the cholesterol, and both for vit. B12.
Slow-cooking should be done taking care not to go above a certain temperature for too long. Iirc people suggested something like 60-70 degrees Celcius. Maybe check the slow-cooking thread(s).

[MarciavD]

Okay thanks Oscar.

You could also try a different kind of fish (ie mackerel) and see if your body accepts that more easily

Of course I can try different fish, didn't think of that. Stupid.. maybe because I thought salmon is 'the best fish to eat'.
But... Where to find raw mackerel?
Do you buy it in the grocery store? Any special brand or store? All I can find is steamed or smoked.

[Oscar]

I used to buy it in a fish shop, but nowadays my supermarket sells fresh mackerel (just got one today). Wild salmon or tuna could also be possible, if available. I don't like tuna that much myself, and it tends to have (a lot) more mercury, but to see if it's the taste of salmon that grosses you out, you could give it a try.

[MarciavD]

I am definitely going to try it!
At least trying to find it...

[Oscar]

Oh, you're in the same country, hahaha! A 'visboer' might have it, but my local Albert Heijn now has fresh mackerel (and other fish). Also organic salmon, which is more expensive, but better and healthier. Mine also sells wild salmon.

[MarciavD]

Yes, I am.

I thought organic salmon = farmed salmon and therefore of less quality than wild caught salmon? It's all deep freezed though and not very tasty in my opinion.
I am going to try to find mackerel, hope that'll suit me.
Twice a week fish should do, besides daily yolks?

And I shouldn't bother about the micrograms iron?

[Oscar]

Yes, organic salmon is also farmed, but with more space, the water gets checked regularly, and they don't get hormones or drugs. Wild fish have to deal with water pollution, so can for example contain mercury.
Twice a week should be enough. Of course you can always experiment whenever you feel comfortable in a certain routine.

The problem with Recommended Dietary Allowances (RDA) or Dietary Reference Intakes (DRI) is that most are guesses. All of them are higher than you'd actually need, some much higher (like calcium). To give an example: the minimum of vit. C we need is 10-15mg/day, where the RDA is 75mg for women and 90mg for men.
The current RDA for iron is 8mg for men (and women post-menopause) and 18mg for women, and I have no idea what the bare minimum is. My guess is that you should be fine, but keep it "under observation" just in case.

[MarciavD]

18mg for women

It seems like they think women really loose a lot of blood
I barely loose any, so I guess 8-10 should be enough. Don't have any symptoms that indicate the opposit, so I guess I can stop worrying about iron.

I will look for mackerel this weekend and am very curious if that will be a success.

Thanks again!!

[RRM]

Thanks. I would like to know if I really need 15mg.

Probably not.
It is the upper RDA.
But you can easily find out if your current diet is appropriate; have your blood iron levels tested.
Elevated iron has pro-oxidative properties (the opposite of antioxidant), so iron intakes should not be high, but adequate.

[MarciavD]

Thank you RRM.
It's just I don't want to go to the doctor and as far as I know, there's no other possibility to get tested.

[RRM]

Why dont you want to go to the Dr?
Its only for a test...